$650 Billion Bailout for Small Business Owners - part 3

Sadly even though you have arranged a number of different times to try and suit as many people as possible, there isn't one that suits me. My broadband connection is so poor that something like this is only actually possible to access smoothly when the demand is low i.e. in the middle of the night. Even with the time difference with the UK none of these are broadcast at a time when I can access them well enough to make sense of them. Susan

I, too, am sad to say that this won't accommodate me, a teacher. I am a single mom, in my 50's with one daughter left at home for about 5 more years. I have been seeking, believing and trying to step off the loop, but haven't found the exit ramp yet. God Bless You for helping others stay off or get off the insanity track. Hope my exit comes up soon!

Dear Susan and Debra... I am so sorry we cannot accommodate everyone with a time that works. I am not sure if we can record the presentation or not. If we can, you will be notified so you can participate at your convenience. Blessings, Michael

I just noticed today that the Fed is now selling its savings bonds for a negative interest--and people,especially foreign investors (people with excess money), are actually buying them knowing they will suffer a loss. What do you think about that? David Thompson

Good question David... I really don't understand it. Wish I did! Blessings, Michael

Dear brethern in Jesus, The Fed selling bonds for negative interest is an interesting phenomenon. Could this be the hand of God raising a standard against usury? The fact that people are buying these negative interest rate bonds shows they have excess money-- money to burn so to speak. They dont' seem to care if they get interest or not. With so much excess money, what could a little interest really matter to them anyway? It seems these people value the security of U.S. treasury bonds so much they are willing to pay interest just as if they were paying a fee to a bank for a safe deposit box. There seems to be trillions of dollars in the hands of the world' s wealthy that they do not need. Pray tell, what are they doing with it? I have wondered where all the money has come come from that was supposedly loaned out in the recent subprime lending fiasco. Perhaps God is raising another standard for the wealthy that they sell houses and lands as the wealthy of the early church did so they can distribute to those who have need, especially those who need debt release. The Bible is very clear that God' s economic kingdom laws include not only periodic debt release every seven and fifty years but a requirement upon those who are blessed with excess wealth and abundance to voluntarily distribute their excess wealth to those in need. In the Old Testament harvest laws, farmers were not to cut the corners of the the fields they harvested nor were they to harvest (glean) their crops twice. This was so the poor and needy could go into the fields to pick what they needed. Jesus taught a parable about a man who was blessed with a great harvest who built bigger barns to hoard his great harvest instead of letting the poor and needy share in his great harvest. Jesus said God told the man his soul was required of him that day. The story of Ananias and Sapphira might serve to make a wealthy man to pause to think about being a little more righteously reasonable with what he does with his excess wealth. Bill Gates and Warren Bufffet are you reading this? Are you hearing what God is saying to you about the enormous wealth you are very willing to give away? He wants to bless you with His riches in glory if you are faithful in His wealth redistrubution program and you give of your abundance to those to whom God sugggests that you give it to. Perhaps banks and lenders would do well to read God's laws concerning lending and debt release and collateral for loans. For example, in God' s kingdom laws, a lender could not take a man' s cloak as collateral OVER NIGHT! How is it that a bank can hold a man' s house as collateral for a purchase money loan for THIRTY YEARS? What' s with all these home foreclosures that kick families out of their homes? Do you think God is not looking? If so, please think again. I think the word \"unconscionable\" most assuredly applies to our wonderful 30-year mortgage notes. Or maybe God is just joking with us here. Whatever the case, God is laughing at us and our calamities. He probably really gets a chuckle from those who think He does not rule in the affairs of mankind as King Neuchadnezzar of Babylon once thought. But after God put him through a rather horrendous chastening process in which he was given the heart of a beast; when he came to his senses, he extolled the God of heaven whose kingdom Nebuchadnezzar said rules in the affairs of mankind forever. Can I get a witness as to what God is doing today to restore His kingdom of love and light on earth? In His Majesty' s Secret Service, James Bond aka David Thompson

FYI... Bill Gates with a lot of help from Warren Buffet gave away $2,000,000,000 in 2007. Details can be found here... www.gatesfoundation.org/nr/public/media/annualreports/annualreport07/AR2007Financials.html They are far more generous with their wealth than most folks surmise. Greed is as pervasive among the poor as with the rich.

Michael, You are quite right, greed is just as pervasive among the poor as with the rich. It seems to me it was the greedy poor that were most responsible for corrupting our government' s welfare system so that the greedy poor, through their cunning, lying and deception were getting far more than their fair share of welfare moneys, even as inadequate as the monies may have been. It seems the devil has wreaked great havoc in the realm of God' s kingdom wealth allocation, especially now in view of the huge imbalance in wealth of the superrich when compared to the debt enslaved middle and lower income families. But I think that with this wealth imbalance coupled with this breakdown in our worldwide mortgage/financial industry, God is is stepping in to ensure that the wealth of His kingdom is distributed equitably so the the workman is indeed worthy of His hire and that goods and services will be bought and sold in a righteous manner with just weights and balances such that only legitmate needs are met and no one is spoiled by buying Babylonian goods theydon't need (like cigarettes) As followers of Christ, I know you agree that we must see what our heavenly Father is doing so we can work along with him as He directs us. I think our goverment and business leaders may now be open as never before to hear the good news of God' s kingdom and its most practical and workable socio-economic ways and means. Michael, I feel that you and the many others that presented at the first ever economic kingdom summit are beginning to fill the void in church teaching for sound godly teaching about how God' s kingdom economy works and how it is taking over the corrupted Babylonian economy of the world. In the words of and old chorus, \"Everybody ought to know\" who Jesus is and what his kingdom is all about. My alma Mater, Regent (then CBN) Business School as yet, to my knowledge, may stil be a bit lax in teaching God' s economic kingdom principles. I think they are still teaching Adam Smith' s free market system that is based upon greedy self interest. But perhaps, God might lead us and others to bring them and other busines schools up to speed in teaching God' s socio-economic kingdom principles of unselfishness, wealth sharing and honesty and how they can be incorporated into the marketplace. And I think our business schools need to start educating our future business leaders about the God ordained role of government to regulate all busines and commerce so as to be a terror to the evil works that satan tries to incorporate into business enterprise. Perhaps God would even direct us to help Bill Gates and Warren Buffet in their philantrophy to ensure that what they do is pleasing to God. Peace and love, David Thompson

To David Thompson Your writings continue to challenge me. I find myself trying to be like the Bereans and studying the Word to see if these things be true. Even though I continue to find differences in our individual beliefs on business principles supported by the Word ( or not), I know from the spirit of your words that we are brothers in Christ. Michael, thank you for this blog. Thank you for the time and effort you put into this and other endeavors for the Kingdom. The Rainforest Strategy has been a blessing. Is there a venue within your blog to discuss Christian business principles that are brought up through the various posters. For instance, David has asserted on numerous occasions that since Acts 2 and 4 has the early church of Jerusalem \"holding all things in common\" then this is a model and principle for all to follow. I do not see it that way in the Word. I would love to hear scriptural viewpoints from other readers on issues like these.

Michael B. Thank you for your acknowledgement that we are brothers in Christ. We are indeed brothers in Christ Jesus our Lord. Even so, it does not appear for now that we are in one accord in all things pertaining to the work of Jesus to destroy the works of the devil as per 1 John 3:8-9. But I am encouraged by what you said about you being like the Bereans, who studied the word to find out the truth. However, I have learned from my own experience for forty years walking as a proud, professed evangelical \"born again\" Christian, that any study of God' s written word, that uses any means of interpretation other than the Holy Spirit will bring about misunderstanding of God' s word. During these forty years, I now realize that the interpretations of scripture that I had I learned from evangelical teachers was a bit distorted to the point where I was unable to understand the true mission of Jesus. As an evangelical Christian, many words such as salvation, born again, judgment and hell meant something different from what the Holy Spirit has taught me since then. For example, I now understand that the salvation of God encompasses far more than the evangelical teaching of accepting Jesus as personal savior and Lord. Jesus is already in the hearts of all Human beings that were created in the image of God which is Christ Jesus. God' s salvation is universal for all creation. It saves all of God' s creation from the evil clutches of Satan. In God' s salvation his judgments are merciful and cleasing for all mankind. In God' s judgments no human being is ever cast into hell forever but rather God removes the hell (Satan' s works) from from every human being so that God' s righteous kingdom is restored in the hearts of all mankind. This is relected in many scriptures but especially in John 12:31-32 where Jesus says \"Now is the judgment of this world: now is the prince of this world cast out. And I, if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me.\" Revelation 11:15 speaks of how God' s kingdom overtakes and replaces the kingdom of Satan which is hell. Just after Jesus died on the cross, he went to hell and took the keys of death and hell from Satan so he could eventually give these keys to all mankind through his apostles. In His Majesty' s Secret Service, David Thompson.

The written word of God should be used to interpret the written word of God which will be illuminated by the Spirit of Truth. Saying \"any study of God’ s written word, that uses any means of interpretation other than the Holy Spirit will bring about misunderstanding of God’ s word.\" sounds spiritual but it is also rife with the potential for serious error. Are you saying that regardless of how a man lives his life he will be saved?

Michael B. Yes, God has ordained that under the illumination of the Holy Spirit, the written word of God should be used to interpret the written word of God in the following manner: As per 1Cor 2:13, we should be comparing spiritual things with spiritual, line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little as is said in Isaiah 28:10 and again in 28: 13. I think God says this twice to emphasize the importance of this truth. Even so, the people were still in error and they would not hear the word of God' s rest and refeshing. Why? because they and the priests and the prophets erred through wine and strong drink...They were all drunk living in hedonism (verse 28:7-8) and all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean. So, how can such hedonists be saved? Through Messiah Jesus, the foundation stone, the tried stone as per Isaiah 28:16. In the next verse (17), God says, \"Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.\" From what Jesus said in John 12:31-32 and other scriptures, the Holy Spirit has put the pieces of God' s word (\"here a little and there a little\") together in my mind so that I have come to understand that the judgment of God is the cleansing and casting out of the devil and his influences from the mind of mankind. Other scriptures reveal that, as this happens, the kingdom of God is restored in the hearts of all mankind. From 1 John 3:8-9, I have learned that Jesus' s purpose in coming to earth is to destroy the works of the devil. Therefore the salvation of God for every human being is bought about by what Jesus is doing to destroy the works of the devil. On the cross, Jesus crushed the head of satanic serpent and left it nailed to the cross. This is analagous to Moses lifting up a bronze serpent on a pole. When the people of Israel looke upon the dead bronzeerpent they were healed of the serpents venom just as we are healed of the satanic serpent's venom when we see of flesh (Satan' s seed) naile dto the cross. So we can all say with St. Paul, I am crucified with Christ.....Galatians 2:20. For the past 2000 years Jesus has been removing the venom of the satanic serpent, the stain of sin from the consciousness of mankind. Jesus was very explicit in telling his disciples that salvation is of God, not of man. Do you think Jesus, who has been given all power in heaven and earth can save all mankind, regardless of how they live their lives or what they believe? Of course he can? After all, it is not by works of righteousness that we have done but according to his mercy he has saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, that was shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our savior, that being justified by his grace we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:5-6) When I walked as an evangelical Christian, I prided myself in thinking that because I knew how to compare scripture with scripture that I had a key to understanding the true interpretation of scripture. But God has shown me that all I was doing was using an erroneous interpretaion of one scripture to erroneously interpret other scriptures. For example, every time I read such words as salvation, born again, judgment and washing of regeneration I would misunderstand the true meaning of these words because of the error I was taught by pastors and teachers who may have been hallucinating on drugs or alcohol just like the priests and prophets of Isaiah' s day who were teaching erroneous interpretations of God' s written word because they were all drunk. If the truth were known, there were probably many teachers and evangelists like A.A. Allen who were drunks. That is not a statement condemnation but rather just an observation. God is merciful to those teachers and evangelists who drink most likely to assuage the doubt and dispair in their hearts because they know in their inward man that what they teach about men going to hell forever is a lie of the devil. No man will go to hell when they die regardless of what they believe. Jesus took the keys of death and hell from Satan just after his crucifixion. Rev. Carlton Pearson received this revealtion about two years ago. I have heard that his mentor, Oral Roberts, wrote him a 12 page letter trying to convince him he was wrong. But Carlton is at great peace knowing he is nit wrong. He now preaches what he calls the gospel of inclusion, which is another way of saying universal salvation. Bottom line of God' s truth regarding sin is this: the seed of God in every man, which is Christ Jesus, cannot sin for His seed remains in us as per 1John 3:9. It is only the seed of Satan in every man that sins. Therefore only the seed of Satan is burned up in the lake of fire. Jesus came to earth to crush satan' s head and to remove his seed from us. With the influence or virus of Satan removed from our minds, we will be able to think clearly so we can then make a conscious choice to walk in the spirit so we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. This is what happens when God renews our minds in the here an now. This is what has happened to me. Now it is both natural and normal for me to walk in the spirit and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Even so the devil has not yet been removed from the portal of my mind but his influence on my thinking is weak and getting weaker as I think more and more with the mind of Christ that has taken over my central processing unit, my mind and heart. According to God' s perfect wiill, every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. The zeal of the Lord of Hosts will cause it to happen regardless of how a man may live his life in this temporal plane. The eternal destiny of all mankind who are created in the image of God (which is Christ Jesus) is determined by God alone, not by the will of man or by what we chose to believe or do in this temporal life. We are all eternally destined to spend eternity in God' s restored kingdom on earth. That is what God has ordained and what St. Paul is talking about when he wrote in 1Timothy 2: 4, \"For it is God' s will that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Amen! I have expereinced that when I expound upon this message of universal salvation in God' s kingdom on earth, people with evangelical mindsets cannot tolerate it and often break fellowship with me just as the disciples of Jesus broke fellowship with him when he preached the spiritual words to them about eating his flesh and drinking his blood. One of my younger sisters, whose life is wound up with an evangelical church, will no longer talk with me about universal salvation in God' s kingdom on earth. But in due time, I know that she, as with all mankind, will be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth of God' s kingdom being restored on earth. Kingdom blessings, David Thompson

correction: \"when we see our flesh (the seed of Satan) nailed to the cross\"

Well, we have certainly digressed from this blog. Mathew 25:41 says \"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;\". This is one of dozens of scripture that refute the false doctrine of universalism. Ideas have power to affect peoples actions. We agree that God's Kingdom will come on earth as it is in heaven. However, Jesus made it clear that there was a price for citizenship in the Kingdom of Heaven when he talked to Nicodemus.

Michael B., I don' t think we have digressed. It seems to me this blog is about singlemindedness; staying focused on what God has called us to do. Our dialogue is similar. Its about us coming into unity of focus concerning what the Bible says about God' s will and purpose for our lives. With regard to Matt. 25:41, and dozens of other scriptures that you say refute what you call the false doctrine of universalism, you seem to think that the \"accursed ones\" on Jesus' s left are accursed human beings. But this is not the case. The accursed ones, the tares, the goats and the bad fish of Jesus' s parables are the seeds or viruses of Satan that infect the minds and hearts of human beings that cause us to malfunction or sin. Jesus sends his angels to separate these satanic viruses from the minds and hearts of mankind so the satanic viruses can be bound up as weeds and burned in the lake of fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels. It was not prepared to burn up human beings. Yet we are tried by fire such that are good works (gold and precious stones) are purified as the dross or chaff is burned away. In this way the consciousness of mankind is cleansed so that God' s kingdom is restored in the minds and hearts of mankind. These words of Jesus are spiritual and can only be interpreted and understood spiritually. This truth is born out in many of the spiritaul things that Jesus told his disciples about his parables and their interpretations. For example, in his interpretation of his wheat and tares parable, he told them the field that contained the wheat and the tares was the world. But spiritually, the world is the spiritual and mental consciousness of mankind, not the physical world. If the field was the physical world and the wheat and tares were physical human beings, then the tares would be human beings that were planted in the world (field) by Satan. But we know from scripture that satan has no ability to plant or to create or to give life to a human being; only God can create and give life to human beings. And we know from scripture that every human being was created in the image of God, which is Christ Jesus. The spiritual truth that Satan is a virus or influence that affects our thinking is consistent throughout scripture beginning with what happened in the Garden of Eden. Through his cunning deception and temptations which are spiritual and unseen, the satanic serpent caused Eve to take and eat from the forbidden tree. And she aslo gave the forbidden fruit to Adam and he also ate thereof. Scripture says the eyes of both of them were opened so they would know good and evil BUT this knowing was from their OWN SELF PERSPECTIVE and UNDERSTANDING that they had imbibed into their genes from the satanic serpent. In so doing they became carnally minded which is death--separated from the righteous perspective of God. From that point on, the seed of Eve (the DNA of Christ Jesus) would have enmity (war) with the selfish seed of the satanic serpent (the flesh or carnal nature). This enmity has gone on ever since in the consciousness of mankind. This truth is evidenced when God spoke to Cain in his state of anger. He said why are you angry? You can also do well like your brother Abel. But if not, sin (satan) lies at the door (of your mind and heart). He shall desire to control you but you shall rule over him. Jesus said a similar thing to Peter when he told Peter that Satan wants to sift you like wheat but I have prayed for you and after you are converted, strengthen your brothers. God' s doctrine of unversal salvation is not at all false. The false doctine is that a human being could wind up in hellish torment forever because of his unbelief. This is a doctrine of the devil that constitutes an insignificant affront to the mighty love and power of the living God who' s perfect will is that all men will be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. You are quite right that ideas (which are spiritual) have the power to affect people' s actions. And the false notion of any human child of God spending eternity in hellish torment has unnecessarily caused great anguish to many who believe their loved ones have died and gone to hell forever because they had not accepted Jesus as their personal savior. This erroneous doctrine causes Mormon' s to perform proxy baptisms for their deceased loved ones who were never baptized during their temporal life on earth. When Jesus talked to Nicodemus, where does it say anything about God charging a price for citizenship in the kingdom of heaven? On the contrary, Jesus said it was God' s good pleasure to give us His kingdom. With regard to being born again to see the kingdom of heaven, he was making an analogy of birth as spiritual mind renewal so that a man can be spiritually enlightened to see the the kingdom of God. The birth analogy arises from the fact that when a baby is born it goes from the physical darkness of its mother' s womb through the birth canal into the light of the world outside it's mother's womb. As I have said, many people, especially evangelicals, get angry when they hear the truth of God' s universal salvation that He effects through the restoration of His kingdom on earth. Some even think that I and those who teach this great good news are influenced by the devil. I trust you are not one of those people. Kingdom blessings, David Thompson

Matthew 25:31-46 is not a parable. Jesus says in Matt 25:32 that \"all the nations will be gathered before Him..\" Nations are people groups and He further says that He will separate them one from another. Separating something IS an act of judgement. In the parable of the tares among wheat, Jesus explicitly explains the parable in Matthew 13:36-43. Earlier in Matthew 13 the seed is explained as the Word of the Kingdom. In V23 Jesus says that when a man hears the Word of the Kingdom and understands it, he bears fruit. The very next parable of the tares among the wheat builds upon this by now saying that the good seed are the sons of the Kingdom. This is the fruit from the first parable. The tares are the sons of the evil one. In John 8:37-47, Jesus tells the Jews that they are sons of the devil because they are not able to listen to His Word and do not believe the truth. Yes, both the wheat and tares are physical human beings. It is the Word of the Kingdom, believe in it, understanding of it, and actions on it that separate the wheat and tares. The price of citizenship into the Kingdom is being born again as you have said. Yes, it is a spiritual birth from darkness to light. The cost was the Lamb of God, sacrificed for our sins. Without which, we cannot see the Kingdom of God. The doctrine of universal salvation is not supported by scripture. Ideas create physical realities. If everyone is going to be saved regardless of their beliefs, faith, actions, etc then why not \"eat, drink, and be merry\"? Contrary to some popular teaching on having your best life now, becoming a contributing member of the Kingdom of God requires sacrifice and hard work. It usually also means a great deal of resistance from the enemy that opposes the advancement of the Kingdom of God into realms that he still occupies. Just because the kingdom of darkness has been defeated does not mean it has been displaced from all its territory. To see the Kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven is going to require both spiritual and physical occupation of various realms in individual nations. But it in not through might or power but by the Spirit of God that this will be accomplished. It is Christ in us, the hope of glory that expands the Kingdom of God on earth.

Michael B., Thank you for you thoughtful and respectful response. In your response, I detect we are coming closer to spiritual unity of thinking as Jesus prayed we would be. But this does not mean we are becoming unitarians. ha ha The words of Jesus are spiritual and are to be understood from a spiritual perspective. Thus, when Jesus speaks of nations being gathered, he is speaking of spiritual nations, which are distinguished as those spiritual groupings of spirits that are under God' s influence and those evil spiritual entities under satan' s control and influence. At present, these two influences exist in every physical nation and also in the hearts and minds of every phyical human being. If this were not so, then how do we interpret Jesus speaking to Peter, saying get thee behind me Satan? Was Peter Satan? Or was the influence of Satan operating in Peter? When Jesus called the Pharisees, the sons of the devil, he was speaking to the seed of the devil that was operating in the Pharisees. In God' s judgments He spiritually identifies and separates the seed of God from the seed of Satan in every human being and nation. And then God sends angels to bind up and burn the seeds of Satan (metaphorically the tares and the goats). This cleanses and purifies the seed or influence of God in every physical human being and in every physical nation so that god' s kingdom of righteousness is restored on earth. 1John 3:7-10 summarizes the truth of the two of the two seeds that operate in each man and nation. Verse 9 says that all sin emmantes from satan' s seed whereas God' s seed cannot sin. Verse 10 concludes this summary by saying, \"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not rightoeusness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.\" But this can only be understood in a spiritually mature mind and heart. St. Paul says the natural (unspiritual) man does not receive the things of the spirit of God; for they are foolishnes unto him : neither can he know them, because they will not be saved. Not hardly, for it is God' s will that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. It is God, and not we ourselves who matures us both physically and spiritually to become conformed to the image and staure of Chrsit Jesus. 1Timothy 2:4 stands as scriptural evidence that you are quite unenlightened and wrong in saying that the doctrine of universal salvation is not supported by scripture. Moreover, you reveal a mindset that fails to understand that the seed of God in man has no desire to sin or to eat drink and be merry, when you write, \"If everyone is going to be saved regardless of their beliefs, faith, actions, etc then why not “eat, drink, and be merry�?\" The mindset that you reveal in such a statement does indeed as you say, create a physical reality. Such mindsets create a fictitious phyical reality that can only see the reality of the strength of Satan' s temptations that may cause men to desire to eat, drink and be merry (in a worldy sense). But I for one, have no desire to eat drink and be merry in a worldly sense. Atually, I hate such hedonistic worldliness because I have expereinced it and found it not to my liking. Through God' s seed in me, I have learned to delight myself in the Lord and His joy gives me strength. St. Paul wrote a simlar thing in Romans 7:22, where he said, \"I delight in the law of God after the inward man.\" In this 7th chapter of Romans, St. Paul further distinguishes between the operation of the seed of God (the inward man) and the seed of Satan in his members that causes him to sin. According to your mindset you think our salvation should be based upon \"our beliefs, faith and actions, etc\". But this is definitely not supported by scripture. Jesus said this is not the case. Salvation is not of man but of God. You and all mankind should be glad that salvation is of God and is universal for all mankind. This is truly the best good news of all time! Kingdom blessings, David Thompson

I believe Ephesians 2:8-10 sums up my thoughts on how a man is saved; \"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.\" We agree that \"The words of Jesus are spiritual and are to be understood from a spiritual perspective.\" However, I do not agree that Jesus never talked about literal physical stuff even if there were another dimension to his words. When He said to \"disciple the nations\" He was talking about physical nations. We are to disciple them in all things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. As far as me being unenlightened in the absolute sense, guilty as charged. I know what I know and I even know some of what I don't know. However, I have no idea what I don't know I don't know. But 1 Timothy 2:4 does not provide a scriptural foundation for universal salvation as you have stated it. God's desire was that Adam and Eve walk with him and fellowship with him. But he gave them the capacity of free will and they chose otherwise. I do not believe that one should \"eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die\" because this attitude is contrary to the will of God as it has been revealed to me. An unredeemed mind could and probably would take the concept of universal salvation to mean a get out of jail free card and would continue in their sin. This is what I was intimating when I said ideas end up creating reality. Peace.

Michael B., I am glad to see that you included verse 10 with Ephesians 2:8-9. One of the first evangelical fundamentalist churches I attended growing up in Miami, Florida had Eph. 2:8-9 written on the church altar. But only rarely did I hear Eph. 2:10 mentioned. Ehp 2:8-9 was quoted to show that savlation was a free gift of God that we recieve when we accept Jesus Christ as our personal savior. The reciprocal is that those who do not accept Jesus as personal saviour have not received God' s gift of salvation and therefore they are not saved and are going to hell when they die. But the Holy Spirit has since enlightened me with the truth that the gift of God is His grace that he freely extends and imparts to all mankind. All mankind are able to receive this gift of God' s grace and to believe in God' s universal salvation through the measure of faith that God also freely imparts to all men. But there is no reciprical that says if man does not exercise his measure of faith to accept Jesus as his personal saviour, He will wind up in hell forever after he dies. In Ezekiel chapre 36, it says that if a man' s heart becomes so hardened, (that he cannot believe or accept Jesus) then God will give him a new heart so he can walk in God' s statutes and to do them. This consistent with the truth that it is God' s will that all men be saved. At the birth of Jesus, the angel said to the shepherds, \"For behold, I bring you great tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David, a Saviour which is Christ the Lord. Jesus is our saviour in that he saves us and all of God' s creation from the influences of Satan that causes us to sin. In so doing he restores God' s kingdom on earth. But we don' t have to believe this or to accept Jesus to make this so. You may think of verses that seem to say otherwise but you are most likely misinterrpreting these verses. Again it is God' s will that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. St. Peter says that God is not willing that any (men) perish. But he is talking only about about our spirits not perishing. Because we know that our mortal bodies do perish. But our spirits are immortal and return to God when our body dies. ( See Eccl. 12:7) The spirit of God in us cannot sin or die because it is of God. In the prophesied great resurrection, all spirits will be resurrected, some to eternal life and some to damnation or judgment. This judgment as with all of God' s judgments will separate and remove the remaining evil influences so that all spirits will recieve immortal bodies to live in God' s kingdom on earth forever. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, their spirits did not die but their minds did die in that they became carnally minded (of the flesh, of the devil) which St. Paul says is death. But God continued to walk with his righteous spirit in them. He made badger skins for them to wear to cover their flesh. These badger skins are of course symbolic of the shed blood of Jesus tha covers our sin in the presence of God. After they were deceived by the satanic serpent to eat from the tree, Satan' s selfish influence entered into them so that they perceived good and evil through the distorted lens of selfishness which is the seed of the Satan that is in all men. As an evangelical fundamentalist Christian, who belived that God' s savation was limited to only those who believed in and accepted Christ as Saviour and Lord, I used to think that the concept of the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man was a new age concept. But now that I undersatnad that God' s salvation is universal for all mankind, I now know that all peoples of the world whether they be Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists or whatever are all my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. As God changes all minds and hearts to believe and understand the great glory of His universal salvation, then will come the restitution of all things that Jesus is causing to happen for such as time as this. But I think I have said enough for now. I may have already said to much. Yours in Christ, David Thompson