Wives Know Stuff

heh, big up to the wives..!! ;))

I am so tired of you always figuring out new ways to \"sell\" your products. Most of the time, the information that you put out is good... I am so OVER your sales strategies to push your information down our throats!!! I am seriously thinking of unsubscribing because you sound like a used car salesman!!

Cheryl can be lazy that way! (You better believe she doesn't want to pack!) :P But seriously, (not that I've not been serious thus far) Wives do know stuff. I am so thankful for mine this Thanksgiving! :)

Dear SBrown; Thanks for caring enough to share. I am sure you would think differently if you were on our side of this financial equation. This is how we pay the, rent, the multiple staff members and all related expenses. Curiously enough, we have also received email even today, thanking us for the special offers as of late. Let me ask you a serious question... would you prefer to be on a separate list that never got any promotions? I have thought about that and could put you on such a list for $10 per month subscription fee. How does that sound? However if you feel all we care about here is \"to push our information down your throat\", then please do not delay... Unsubscribe right away. Our feelings won't be hurt and you will no longer be offended.

Michael, I have contemplated your exchanges with SBrown and others concerning your promotions in view of your concept of selling among wolves. I am trying to get an understanding of the difference between how sheep and wolves sell. I think the difference is the same as the difference between satanic Balylonian commerce and the commerce of the kingdom of God. In the book of Revelation it says a person cannot buy and sell without the mark of the beast. Just what is the mark of the beast? Could the mark be the trademark of the devil to tempt, lie and deceive in promotions and advertising? I have observed and written about how the Babylonian world' s promotions and advertising almost always use satanic deceptive temptations and promotions to create a need for something that people usually don't need. All such promotions are based on the concept of quid pro quo or I will do something for you if you do something for me. Satan tempted Jesus in this way showing him the kingdoms of the world and telling him he will give him these kingdoms if Jesus would worship him. But the problem was that Satan did not own those living kingdoms. He was only in charge of death and hell at the time and later on jesus took those from him. This satanic technique has crept into the church where evanagelists create a need for people to be saved so they can have the assurance of going to heaven when they die. But as you know, the ministry of Jesus had nothing to do with going to heaven when we die. It was all about God' s good pleasure to give us all His kingdom now. God places no requirement on us to do something for him. Its not by works of righteous that we have done but according to his mercy he has saved us to participate in His kingdom on earth. In God's kingdom commerce, I don't think information or truth is marketed and sold. It is freely given. St. Paul did not charge the Corinthians for the two epistles he sent them. He supported himself by making and selling tents. But the way he carried on his tent making business was probably quite different than the tent making business of today where tents are mass produced and sold through promotions that may not be righteous. I am just thinking out loud here and would appreciate any commnets as to where my thinking might be unrighteous and in need of correction. David Thompson

Dear David, I am in complete agreement with you that to \"tempt, lie and deceive in promotions and advertising\" and \"to create need for something that people usually don't need\" is to sell like wolves and a trademark of the devil. However, you seem to have grouped all sales and all marketing into that category. The very brief scripture you use in your comment is in the context of the prophecy given to John about the end of time. It speaks of how things will be when all of those things take place. You certainly don't mean to say that all business, which must include sales, is of the devil. When satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness, it was not the picture of a business dealing - this was not an example of sales & marketing. Of course, Paul didn't charge for his letters and information & truth, themselves, maybe free. However, it does cost money to produce and distribute information and truth to a widespread audience in today's world. The Word of God is absolutely a free gift to all of us, but you still pay for a Bible at your local bookstore. That is because it cost something to print the Word and make it so readily available to you. Even Bibles that are given away were paid for by somebody. It cost something for the paper, the ink, the equipment that does the printing, the electricity to run the equipment, the workers that manage the equipment, the covers, the binding machine, the boxes they were put in for shipping, the shipping expenses, etc., etc., etc. We hear so often from business owners who no longer want to do business with Christians because so many of them want things for free or at greatly discounted prices and they can't afford to stay in business with a customer base that doesn't want to pay a fair price for products and/or services. This really gives us, and our God, a bad name in the marketplace. When any of us invest our time, resources and hard work into producing something, we expect to get paid fairly for that, so why do we so often get offended when others want to be paid fairly for the things we purchase from them? It is an honorable thing to work hard and earn a fair wage. There is nothing wrong with buying and selling, when it is done with both parties fairly benefiting from the arrangement. And, marketing is a great tool for reaching those who could truly benefit from your products and/or services. It would be a shame to have wonderful teachings that can really help other Christians grow their businesses, but to keep them on a shelf and never get it into the hands of those people because you're too afraid to be seen as something you're not. The nice thing about marketing tools is that we are all free to ignore the ones that don't interest us and respond to the ones that peak our interests. We would be doing you a disservice if we didn't find creative ways to introduce you to some powerful teachings that can impact your business and change your life. We care too much about you to do that. Blessings, Cheryl

Nicely said, Cheryl. For the record, I think this is a healthy debate and there needs to be discourse and mutual understanding along these lines. I think speculation about how the Apostle Paul sold and marketed his tents is a little bit moot (how can we really know?). That said, we can at least see from where he set up shop in Acts 18 (right smack in the middle of the marketplace with Priscilla and Aquila) that he had some business savvy. Making tents and having absolutely none of your potential customers know about it would be remarkably senseless. Finding ways to communicate the message about your products and/or services wrapped in relevant communication to a highly-targeted audience? Brilliant. Speaking to the needs of the people God has called you and built you to serve? Not only is it a smart marketing move, I'd say it's part and parcel of the calling that God places on us as business people. Learning how best to appeal to them and how not to do so? A learning curve with plenty of room for mistakes. In the end, we have to deliver solid value and be smart about communicating that value to the right people. Hopefully, we're all learning how to do that better.

Cheryl, The fall of Babylon the great as depicted in Revelation chapter 18 is the end result or fullness of a season of iniquity similar to the iniquity of the Amorites that God spoke about to Abraham. It seems to me that we are now in the fullness of the iniquity of the world economy that is metaphorically referrred to as Babylon the great. This being the case, I do see that all business and commerce has become thoroughly filled with the iniquity of the devil that is marked by his trademark of deception, lying, manipulation, false testimonials, cheating, slavery to debt and every work of the devil that Jesus was manifested to destroy. The Babylonian economy' s basis for determining cost, price, value, ownership, marketing etc. are all changing and what we think are economic laws of supply and demand that determine price are also changing. In place ot the Babylonian economy, that is falling under the weight of debt and a great imbalance of wealth, God' s kingdom economy is emerging where, just as with the early church of Jesus Christ, people will hold all things in common, none will say anything is their own and those who have excess wealth will sell houses and lands to redistribute wealth to those who have need. The zeal of the Lord of hosts is performing this just as it did with the earlier followers of Jesus who followed the kingdom principles he taught them. I have written a short booket about this that I will freely email to anyone who wants it. I agree with David Johnson. This is a very healthy and needed dialogue to bring us all into uinity of kingdom thinking and what God is doing today to complete the full restoration of His kingdom on earth. David Thompson

Hello David; I am grateful for your feedback and for the pleasant tone in which you solicit an opinion different from yours. I am pleased to respond to your main points... You mention that you don't believe truth is bought or sold in the kingdom of God. OK. Proverbs 23:23 notwithstanding (Buy the truth and sell it not). If I know the truth about something, I shouldn’t withhold it for money. That seems fair enough. However, consider Bible publishers who have to purchase paper and ink and printing presses and warehouses and shipping and distribution and retail services along with the incumbent staffing needs along the way, electricity, phone, etc. Should the publisher expect to get paid when he sells a bible? How about his staff? The phone company? The UPS guy? Etc. Then there are folks like me who are selling teaching based on truth (or so we hope). We not only have families to feed, staff to pay, rent to make good on, CD’s to purchase, printers, storage and on and on, but we hope to actually make a profit. In my case, the vision we have in writing at our office is to take the same teaching we offer here in the States and make it available to the people in poorer countries without charge. We have big dreams for impacting nations by discipling folks who could never afford what we have to offer and helping them succeed in the marketplaces of the world and come to know the Father in the context of work. We need to make a profit here so we can open an office in Panama, work with the government, reach out to the poor and raise them up to a better standard of living, while introducing them to the One who makes all things possible. You say that all business has become thoroughly filled with the iniquity of the devil. I can only grant you that point to the extent that our flesh, whether Christian or not, is contrary to the ways of God and delights in its own way and cares nothing for God. However I know many business people who are not party to the deception, lying, manipulation, false testimonials, cheating, slavery to debt, that you mention and to paint everyone with such a broad brush is in my opinion a gross error. It seems you attribute natural laws of supply and demand to the Babylonian system. Maybe I misread your point there. But the Babylonian system does not mean that everything they do is wrong. They eat and breathe. They give and receive. They buy and sell. They lie sometimes and tell the truth sometimes. The system is evil, but much like good food with rat poison mixed in, a little goes a long way to make the whole thing bad. Buying and selling is a virtuous practice to engage in. So is sex. But there are guidelines that make something which is inherently good, become evil. I’m sure you can follow my meaning. But there is something else here… you extol the early church model where the people held all things in common and there was no lack. I want to point out something oft overlooked here. If I and a few of my neighbors were to sell all our possessions and put them at the feet of our local church. And if the pastor were to distribute them among all the believers equitably. We would all live well --- for a period of time --- but the expense of now having to rent, because no one owns a home, the expense of having to purchase food because no one owns a farm, the expense of having to rent a cab or take a bus because no one owns a car, etc, etc, etc., would soon eat up all the money on hand and then we would end up just like the saints in Jerusalem ultimately ended up. Read Romans 15:26 “For it has pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints who are at Jerusalem.� THEY WERE BROKE… And Paul travled around Asia minor taking up a collection for the poor folks whose experiment in communal living but owning nothing, only lasted until the funds ran out. They owned no businesses so had only slave wages. It was devastating. And I believe it is a model to be avoided. No doubt you may have a response to this, but it may take a few days for me to respond, as I am on a pressing project. Blessings, Michael

Michael , You are quite right. I have much to say in response to your comments. By way of clarification, I would like to reiterate that the socio-economic sytem of Babylon has been mixed in with God' s kingdom socio-economic sytem. This truth is reflected throughout scripture and by what the Holy Spirit reveals that may not be recorded in scripture. Jesus revealed this truth when he said that the kingdom of God suffers violence and the violent take it by force. If this were not the case, then any idea of reconciling iniquity, bring in everlasting righteousness or restoring God's kingdom on earth would be absurd. I have one Christian friend and I suspect there are many other Christians who, at present, can not accept this truth. These people are of the mindset that I call the \"all or nothing mindset\". They cannot handle the truth that God' s kingdom has been corrupted and is in transition toward being cleansed of corruption and perfected. People under this deluded mindset, do ot register that Jesus has come to earth as a refiner's fire and as fuller's soap to cleanse God' s kingdom by removing all satanic influences from earth and destroying them in the lake of fire. Through this and other deluded mindsets, many doctrines of the devil and seducing spirits have crept into modern day church teaching. It seems you used a hypothetical scenario to prove why the model of early church' s socio-economic system would not work in modern times and should be avoided. To say the least and to be polite, I find your hypothetical scenario to be without merit and void of knowledge of what actually happened to the early church. The early church's failure to sustain God' s kingdom socio-economic sytem was not because there was anything wrong or inapplicable with God' s sytem. Its failure to do so was a result of the satanic influences of nicolaitan and jezabel controlling spirits that had entered into the church along with Baalim \"prophet for profit\" spirits that Jesus addressed in his message to the seven churches as recorded in the book of Revelation. All the churches except the Philadelphian church of brotherly love, had these evil spirits operating within them. Because of this, I think that the Philadelphian church was able to sustain God' s socio-economic system. I think this church represents the remnant of the stock of Israel that St. Paul discusses in Romans chapter 11. This remnant church may be the same as the elect of God who are part of the fellowship of the mystery of God that was hidden from before the world began. Today I believe this remnant is represented by communities such as the Amish communities who remain separate from the world and practice some semblance of God' socio-economic order. I do not think your conclusion that the socio-economic model of the early church should be avoided is born out of the measure of faith that God has given you. And you know what that means. I have much more to say but I will close for now. In His Majesty' s Secret Service, David Thompson

Michael, As a continuation of my response, I would like to elaborate upon why I believe and know that the socio-economic system practiced by the early church is the same as that of God' s kingdom and why this system is now being implemented woldwide. And why this implemention cannot be stopped by mankind or any other power in heaven and earth. All prophecy points to this as a mystery of God that His zeal will cause to happen. (See Rev.10:7 and 11:15 and Isaiah 9:7) The zeal of God is his power to change the hearts and minds of mankind to give then repentance so their minds will be renewed in accordance with Romans 12:1&2. The active nature of this repentance is revealed in the words of John the Baptist when he was asked what he meant by preaching \"Repent, for the kigdomof God is at hand.\" He responded, If you have two coats give one to a person who needs one. In other words share what you have with those in need. To the publicans he said don' t take more tax than is required. Be honest! To the soldiers he replied, don' t use the power of your police office to extort money from the people you are supposed to be protecting from the wiles of the devil. These are all principles of the kingdom of God that Jesus also taught and that he empowered his early followers to do and to live by in the face of all the evil satanic temptations, corruptions, manipulations, perversions and delusions that were permeating and controlling the thoughts and intents most all of the world at that time. However, I don' t think it was a bad as before the flood of Noah when it was said that the imaginations of men' s hearts were evil continually. Since the time of Noah, I see that things have gotten progressivley better and better as a result of God judgments from time to time that have removed and dimminished Satan' s power in the world. In God' s judgment of the flood of Noah, Satan' s living hosts of human beings were reduced to just eight iving souls. Its quite a mysterious irony that God has given Satan the mission to kill, maim and destroy and when he carries out this mission he is actually diminishing his power that is primarily dependent upon him having the living minds and hearts of living human beings in which he is able to operate with his deceptions, temptations and other fiery darts of his spiritual weaponry. In Ezekiel chapter 36, God says he will overcome and thwart the devil' s works by giving Israel (a microcosm of all mankind) new hearts in which he shall place His spirit to enable mankind to walk in His statutes and to do them. This is just one of the places in scripture that reflects that God' s salvation is all of His doing and not of man' s just as Jesus said. David Thompson

To David Johnson, David, When you say it is \"moot\" to speculate about Paul' s tent business because scripture doesn' t tell us much about it, I detect that you seem to be following the man-made doctrine known as \"Sola Scriptura\". This erroneous doctrine dismisses the very important fact that Jesus left us his Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth. Jesus knew that scripture was inadequate to reveal the full counsel and kingdom word of God that we need to daily live our lives. If we have the mature mind of Christ, as it seems St. Paul did, then do we not have access to all the knoweldge that is stored in Christ' s memory bank? In consideration of this possiblity, I have heard it said that God' s revelation is a \"remembering\" of what is already in God' s mind. That being said, I believe the Holy Spirit will tell us how St. Paul ran his tent making business if we really want to know. But I am fairly confident that the way Paul ran his business was righteous and did not involve manipulative maketing techinques that are so commonplace today. Since, as you observed from scripture, that Paul probably set up his business in the market place where tents were made and sold, his tents tent sales were most likely based upon word of mouth about the quality of his tents that people could watch him make. As people watched him work he probably ministered the word of the kingdom to them and demonstrated the principles of the kingdom through his integrity in making quality tents to ensure the satisfaction of his customers. He probably offered a money back guarantee if his tents did not hold up as he said they would. I once odered and read Carlton Sheets' course on how to buy houses with no money down. Since he offered the course on TV with a money back guarantee, I sent it back to him and got my money back after I read it and realized it did not help me with any information I did not already know. In your comments you talk about promoting your products to a highly targeted market. These are products that you seem to think people need. This is exactly what the world does but the problem is, as it also is with the world, that most people really don' t need the products that, as you say, are \"brilliantly\" marketed. I think the truth is that most people who buy Christian self-help books would be too embarrased and fearful to say the books have not helped them. Actually I think they are deceived into believing that the books might have helped them when there is no evidence of it in their lives. But I am not afraid or embarrassed to say that very few of the many Crhistian books I have been hyped into buying and reading have not helped me to understand what I needed to know about God' s kingdom and how I could enter into it and participate in it. Moreover, I have come to realize that God has, for His good purposes, commissioned Satan to steal the kingdom word from people' s hearts so they remain in the dark about what God is doing to restore His kingdom on earth. Most all I have learned about the kingdom of God has come to me directly from God interpreting scripture and leading me into doing his kingdom word and showing on the job how and why His kingdom word works. I think God has given Billy Graham the grace to admit that of all the millions he has ministered to over many years, through his worldwide crusades and through the massive amounts of printed materials, most of which were distributed free of charge, very few have experienced much change in their life for the better. When Larry King asked him if he still thought it was necssary for a man to accept Jesus as personal savior to go to heaven when he died, Billy responded it was up to God to decide who goes to heaven and who doesn' t. The truth is that upon death all spirits return to God from whence they came and our bodies return to the dust of earth from whence they came as King Solomon says in Eccl. 12:9. Peace and love, David Thompson

Wow - it sounds like someone could use a little humility for Christmas

In John 16 where Jesus said \"..when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth...\" I do not see any mention of a time element. Does this mean we can know everything about everything in this temporal life? Though Christ is in me and I have the mind of Christ, I also still have the mind of Michael (not Pink) and all the attendant baggage. To think that my mind has been totally renewed means that I would be totally transformed. I can't give you chapter and verse but I don't see that happening in this life. I think we should be very careful about becoming too dogmatic in our interpretation of \"truths\" that they become fellowship breakers when in fact they are preferences or our own ideas.

To Michael B. With regard to a time element, Jesus told his disciples to wait in Jerusalem for the Holy Spirit to come. And the record in the book of Acts is clear that on the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples as tongues of fire. And ever since the Holy Spirit has been in the world renewing minds and leading people to the knowledge of the truth. Does not this truth correlate well with what St. Paul wrote in 1Tim 2:4 that it is God' s will that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth? If the Holy Spirit was not given to lead us into all truth in this temporal life then no one would know who Jesus really is because Jesus told his apostles that only God the Father could reveal that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. How does what you say about complete mind renewal not happening in this temporal life comport with what St. Paul said in 1Cor. 2:6-7? Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of of the princes of this world, that come to nought; but we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the world unto our glory which none opf the princes of this world knew; for had they know it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. Who are the \"perfect\" and what is the wisdom of God in a mystery? And how did St. Paul and those who are perfect come to know the wisdom of God in a mystery in their temporal life if the Holy Spirit did not reveal it to them. If these questions make me sound too dogmatic then pray tell how should we proceed to dialogue so that we can come in unity of the knowledge of the truth? I think it is very interesting to observe that when the Pharisees asked Jesus questions that they thought would trip him up, he repsonded with questions they could not answer until finally they durst not ask him any more questions. I think that is rather humorous. If you are concerned that what I write here are just my preferences and my own ideas then all you need do is to ask the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you and I know he will because that' s His job in this temporal life. Peace and love, David Thompson

Wow. This has certainly become a unique discussion. David, as to the comments that were directed at me personally, I can only say that I'm a bit baffled. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I subscribe to the notion that the Holy Spirit has a limited (or nonexistent) role in revealing to us such things as we need to know. I personally make significant effort to rely upon His presence and guidance in my life. As to my promoting products to a highly-target market, you say:

\"These are products that you seem to think people need.\"

Guilty as charged. If I didn't believe there was a need, I wouldn't waste my energies in producing nor in marketing products. You continued:

This is exactly what the world does but the problem is, as it also is with the world, that most people really don't need the products that, as you say, are \"brilliantly\" marketed.

The fact that a substantial majority of the earth's 6 billion+ people do not need a given product is, in my view, precisely why marketing must be highly-targeted. I can't speak to why someone who doesn't need real estate investing information would choose to purchase a product from Carleton Sheets. If you felt you were misled, then it was wise to return the product. I would have no way to guess how many people do or do not need the information he produces. What I can say is that I and the people I work with on a regular basis (which has included Mr. Pink at various points in the journey) work very hard to deliver value to the people who are most in need of what God has gifted us to produce and deliver. And, in a world full of marketing noise, it requires tremendous focused effort (and a measure of skill, perhaps) to get the message into the right marketplace. Reaching people at their point of need in today's environment is, in my experience, more challenging than ever before. I appreciate your thoughts about the noble efforts of Billy Graham and the Evangelistic Association that bears his name. I would only add that it would not have been possible for him to have given away all of those materials without the thousands of people who contributed funds. Those contributions one could argue were produced -- all or in significant part -- through work in the business world. You and I are in 100% agreement that there's a lot of fluff being hyped as \"Christian.\" I'm sorry to hear that you feel you've been burned by book publishers. It is saddening that you feel the need to condemn any and everyone producing and distributing information (in book form or otherwise) because of your bad experiences. Michael will, I'm quite sure, do a much better job than I could of responding to your thoughts about the Kingdom and production of food, goods and services -- when he is able to commit time to it. It does seem to me that God instituted work as a method of glorifying him and stewarding that which He so masterfully created. It also seems to me that it was He Who connected reward (profit) to work:

In all labor there is profit, but idle talk leads only to poverty. (Proverbs 14:23)

I'm sure you're aware that the Hebrew term used in that verse communicates the idea of \"gain\" and cannot be mistaken for anything but that which we understand in such clear economic terms today. If we aren't selling the goods and/or services that we produce, then it becomes quite mysterious to me how those two can be connected. Since poverty is clearly not God's intention for His people, it seems that we are charged to produce. One final note along these lines: in the Hebrew language of the Old Testament, there was a word used for \"work\" which is also translated \"worship.\" (The word is avodah for anyone curious enough to look into it.) It is significant to me that the process of taking God-given creativity, adding effort (which God gave me the ability to exert), and mixing in such materials as God has given us access to is viewed by God as an act of Worship. It is from this basis that I work so hard in the business arena. May it bring Him glory, by His grace. And may it also bring the promised reward so that I may be the \"good man\" who \"leaves an inheritance to his children's children.\" (Prov 13:22)

Wow, I as I am reading this comment series I am embarrassed for you Mr. Thompson with the way that you speak, and the with the complete lack of humility. You wrote earlier: \"it seems to me that we are now in the fullness of the iniquity of the world economy that is metaphorically referrred to as Babylon the great. This being the case, I do see that all business and commerce has become thoroughly filled with the iniquity of the devil\" You seem to enjoy stirring the pot for these men who are supplying encouragement to many. An assumtion that you know we are now in the fullness fo the iniquity of the world is very presumptuous. Frankly it seems you take your \"insights\" a bit too seriously. It might be wise to submit some of these thing that you see to a pastor whom you have submitted yourself and talk with those who have been in accountable relationships with. I would hate for you to lead people down a path that was not God because of a misstep or a misinterpretation of what the Holy Spirit has revealed to you. As men we are given the task of provision for our families, and leading them to a place where they can know God in all of his ways. One of the biggest ways we do that is to work and give them a safe place to live while they are on this journey. The bible says that a man is worthy of his hire. Also with out the business people and those who worked in the time of the Acts church if there had not been business people and those who were working in these fields there would not have been anything to share as a community. You Said \"St. Paul ran his tent making business if we really want to know. But I am fairly confident that the way Paul ran his business was righteous and did not involve manipulative maketing techinques that are so commonplace today. Since, as you observed from scripture, that Paul probably set up his business in the market place where tents were made and sold, his tents tent sales were most likely based upon word of mouth about the quality of his tents that people could watch him make. As people watched him work he probably ministered the word of the kingdom to them and demonstrated the principles of the kingdom through his integrity in making quality tents to ensure the satisfaction of his customers. He probably offered a money back guarantee if his tents did not hold up as he said they would.\" You are assuming that Paul had a tent making business, however lets look at this more carefully. For Paul to have a business he would have had top have a material supply chain, such as a sheep farm or the like, he would have had to have supply of wood or other material that would allow him to support the tents and also would have had to have many other parts of the manufacturing system to make that work. So to say that it would have taken time to set that up. However as we read in the bible that Paul did lots of traveling, and it was not to create contacts for his business. More than likely (to jump on the assumption wagon with you) paul worked for a tent maker. he probably sat in a field with some other guys working with them to put this stuff together and let the business owner do the sales work. Paul only sold the gospel. YES he sold it, some times he came with stories of Jesus, sometime he came with Power and deed, but he brought the truth, and presented it in a way that would be drawn to light of Jesus. God is also in the marketing business. Marketing is just opening of perspective to see that there is more information out there and it is possible for people, except for maybe you Mr. Thompson, who seems to have all wisdom revelation, that this form of information exchange is necessary.

Dear David Johnson, Thank you for your most excellent response. Indeed this is a most unique discussion/dialogue we are having. While it is stirring up a lot of interest and maybe controversy, I believe that truth is being revealed and that the body of Christ is being edified as people think deeply about what is said and add their thoughtful comments. It may be causing some to reevalute their thinking and doctrinal positions. Because it is revealing truth, I don' t think the devil likes such dialogues as he seems to be using his trademark weapons of confusing the issue, accusation, sarcasm and innuendo to cast ridicule and judgment upon the dialogue participants for the sake of dividing the dialog participants so they break fellowship. A few of the responders think from what and how I write that I lack humility. But that' s ok, I am glad they had enough boldness to say so. I wonder if such boldness would classify as a lack of humility? Many people are so humble they would never think of challenging the church, government or business world status quo as if the status quo was sacred. I think that such humility is born out of fear and a choice to look the other way when they see a brother or sister overtaken in a fault. I believe that such so-called is a work of the devil. Such so-called humility is not a Godly quality like meekness or like humbling yourself in the sight if the Lord. Moses was said to be a very meek man but through the power of God he was able to stand up to Pharoah and boldly command him to \"Let my people go\". I appreciate how you \"brilliantly targeted\" your response to me by focusing on the issues I raised in my email response to you. To help assuage your bafflement over what I said about you subscribing to the doctrine of \"Sola Scriptura\", I was merely taking issue with your saying \"How can we really know about St. Paul' s tent making\" I took it as you were implying that all we know about Paul's tentmaking is what the book of Acts tells us. The Doctrine of \"Sola Scriptura\" wrongly says that the Bible is God' s final word to mankind. According to this doctrine, if the Bible only tells us a little about St. Paul' s tentmaking, then that' s all God wants us to know about it. I think this is an evil doctrine of the satanic nicolaitan spirit that still dominates and controls the people (the laity) of the church today so that they are afraid to hear anything that runs contrary to what the church hierarchy has taught them about what the Bible says. From your response, I would say we are pretty much in one accord, especially with what you wrote about work being our worship. I have known and operated in that truth for many years. Other responders have accused me of being judgmental and condemning people who are just just trying to make a living by producing Christian literature that they feel people want and need. My response is to clarify that any time I might point out something that I see is wrong, I am not at all judging or condeming any child of God who may be doing the wrong. I am only judging and condeming the devil who is influencing them to do wrong. Just as God the Father and His son Jesus do not judge or condemn any man, neither do I. God forgives us all because of our ingnorance. His judgments are only on Satan and his influences. His judgments remove and cast out satanic influences just as Jesus said, \"Now is the judgment of this world. Now is the prince of this world cast out. And I, if be lifted up, I will draw all men unto me.\" For many this truth of God' s judgments may come as something shockingly new as a great revelation just as it came to me a few years ago. The modern day church is way of base in what it teaches about the judgments of God. In so saying, please understand that I am not judging or condeming the modern day church and those to believe its teachings. I am only pointing out how the devil has deceived them with regard to God' s judgments. One of the greatest ploys of the devil that really messes up people' s minds is the ploy to get people to feel guilt, anguish and fear of jusgment over something that the devil influenced them to do and for which he alone will be judged and condemned. When I was I a child, the devil caused me to play his game of blame transferance with my little sister. At the dinner table, I would taunt her and make faces at her when my parents weren' t looking and then when she responded to my taunting and acted out by screaming or thowing something at me, she would be blamed for something I caused. I think this messed up her mind a bit and she may still be afffected by it and other devilish tricks I pulled on her. But that was long ago and my saying I' m sorry does' t do much. I would greatly appreciate thoughtfull comments and responses from all who read this. In His Majesty' s Secret Service, David Thompson P.S. Is it hokey, lacking humility or what for me say \"In His Majesty' s Secret Service\" as if I am James Bond or some type of secret agent? I say this because I am truly a member of the Fellowship of the Mystery of God. This is a secret fellowship that exclusively first included only Jesus and his close and immediate disciples. This secret fellowship understood and opperated in the mysteries of God, the chief of which is the mystery of God' s kingdom coming to earth. In the early days of the Church most all church members were part of this Fellowship of the Mystery of God. They all understood the principles and statutes of God' s kingdom and they lived and walked in these principles and statutes. But with the influx of the satanic spirits of nicolaitan, jezebel and Baalim, the prophet for profit, that Jesus addressed with the seven churches, things quickly changed and have been messed up ever since. But the good news is that now, for such a time as this, things are changing back to the days or yore when men had the strentgh of ten because their heart was pure. The remnant of the stock of pure Israel, the Church of Philadelphia, that was not cursed with those evil spirits, is now overcoming and taking over the earth. Such a great mystery! my my

To David Thompson, Though I disagree with some of your assertions, I appreciate your passion for your beliefs and the strength of your convictions. I would like to elaborate on what I said in an earlier post “I think we should be very careful about becoming too dogmatic in our interpretation of “truths� that they become fellowship breakers when in fact they are preferences or our own ideas.� In fact, you have expressed opinions on various biblical topics that can only be supported by saying, the Holy Spirit told me so. Stating opinion as fact is being dogmatic. There can be no dialogue if there isn’t a standard to base the assertions of fact on (ie The Bible). 1. The assertion that the perfect economic model was demonstrated by the first century church is the truth can not be supported by scripture. Stating that you have been told by the Holy Spirit that it is the truth and that since the Holy Spirit was sent to lead us into all truth does not make it true. We have been given everything pertaining to life and godliness and yet there isn’t anybody alive walking in the fullness of this. Our spirits, once renewed, are perfect. There is nothing we can add to the finished work of Jesus. But we still live in a fallen body with imperfect minds that must be transformed through a life long process. Asserting that you have all truth sets you up as God. 2. You assert “If the Holy Spirit was not given to lead us into all truth in this temporal life then no one would know who Jesus….� I can assure you that everyone I know that profess, acknowledge, and practice Jesus as Lord believing that He died for their sins DO NOT know all truth in their minds. They may know all truth by knowing Jesus but it hasn’t been transformed in their temporal minds. Why does Paul say your mind must be continually renewed if it was when the Holy Spirit filled you? Your final statement “If you are concerned that what I write here are just my preferences and my own ideas then all you need do is to ask the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you and I know he will because that’s His job in this temporal life� suggests that you have cornered the market on truth. This is a very dangerous place to set yourself. There is wisdom in a multitude of counselors. I am in complete agreement with you that Jesus didn’t come to earth to populate heaven. He came to “seek and save that which was lost�. He didn’t come to seek the lost. That which was lost was the Kingdom. But part of establishing Kingdom rule on earth entails gaining citizenship in the Kingdom and then learning the principles and lifestyle of Kingdom living. I also agree that the Holy Spirit was given to lead us into all truth. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord. It is a process of transformation that is not finished until we see Him as He is which I believe happens outside of time. With the Love of Jesus Michael

Dear Michael B., Thank you for responding in a more thoughtful and conciliatory manner. As we continue to dialogue in a more mutually respectful manner, I know the living word of God will discern the thoughts and intents of our hearts for his purpose of bringing us into one accord for such a time as this. When I say such things, I am not expressing an opinion that, as you write \"can only be supported by saying, The Holy Spirit told me so.\" For example, in this instance my referring to \"His purpose of bringing us into one accord\" is supported by my knowledge of scripture where Jesus prayed to our heavenly Father that his followers would be \"one\" even as he is \"one\" with the Father. From this I know for sure that it is God' s will that we will all be in one accord for such a time as this. When we pray, scripture says we should always pray in accordance with God' s will just as Jesus did. When you suggest that I am being dogmatic and presuptuous, you are presuming to know the thoughts and intents of my heart, which God knows are not less than pure as you seem to suggest. When you say, \"There can be no dialogue if there is no standard to base the assertions of fact on (i.e. the Bible)\" you are presuming that I have no scripture to back up my assertions. But quite the contrary is true. Since God began renewing my mind about eight years ago, this renewing process has cleared my mind and heart of much error, misinterpretation and misunderstanding of scripture to the point where I am now able to compare spritual things with spiritual to be able to understand the spiritual meaning of scripture. The scripture has come alive to me so I see how it all correlates in the truth and revelation of what God has been doing through His Son Jesus \"to make restitution of all things.\" I now see and understand that Jesus' s sermon on the mount was Father God' s blueprint of the attributes and characterisitics of the people He will use and is now using to transform this evil corrupt world into His holy and righteous kingdom on earth. God knows we need peacemakers for such a time as this. And he has given so many of us a hunger and thrist for righteousness. And He has renewed the hearts and minds of people like me and many many others to a level of purity so we can spiritually \"see\" God in this temporal life. Since God is a spirit, as Jesus says, we must worship Him in spirit and in truth. With the renewed heart and mind that God has processed and developed in me, I am able to discern and separate His works and influence from that of the devil so I can give Him more specifically the glory for the things He has done and is now doing. What I write about the early church being God' s perfect model of His kingdom economy is supported by so much scripture it literally explodes in my mind. For example, you might read what scripture (Luke chapter 3) says about how John the Bapist responded to questions concerning the meaning of repentance and fruits (works) that are meet for repentance in view of the fact that the kingom of God was and still is at hand. The early church, in holding all things in common and no one considering anything their own, was clearly showing to the world the results of their paradigm shift in thinking from the way the world thinks to the way a renewed kingdom of God-oriented mind thinks. This is what repentance is all about. Sincerely and respectfully in love, David Thompson