You’re Pruned if You Do & Pruned if You Don’t

Good article. But how does one know whether they are being pruned (God) or being attacked (satan)? We have always been taught \"where God guides, He provides\". So if resources are stripped away in a ministry God has called me to, why would it be a God thing? Wouldn't it be the enemy?

Michael: Thank you for that good message. I totally relate !!! P.S. I purchase The Bible Incorporated for client gifts and to resell. Your friend, Pat J. Schulz -Author, Making Sweet Lemonade (2007); Metamorphosis: A Life Journey (1996) Publisher and Founder ENHEART Publishing, Inc. pschulz@enheartpublishing.com

I just did a devotional with my board last night on this very text. One of the things I saw that got me into the devo for myself was that in the text you quoted it sounds like God is removing us from the vine, when it says \"takes away\" which to me contradicted the whole rest of the chapter which continually says remain remain remain in regards to our connection to the vine. Why would a God who challenges us to remain attached to the vine remove us from the vine simply for not being fruitful. We're not being sinful persay but simply not fruitful. Would he not rather pour more nutrients and light into us so that we became fruitful. As I began to study the different interpretations of that scripture some were even harsher like the NIV that says we would be \"cut off\" but if you look at the greek for the word they use for \"take away\" it can also mean lift up. I live in an area of rainforest on north Vancouver island, BC, Canada. We get alot of rain. If you have a torential downpour here your crops or flowers will be so weighted with water they will droop to the ground. While being on the ground the dirt is sprayed on the grounded foliage by the rain hitting the dirt and that again dirties the leaves and weighs them down even more. Dirty leaves cannot work photosynthesis properly and so are not productive to the plant or not fruitful. In fact if they remain on the ground not only will they not provide anything to the plant they will get rot or be eaten by slugs etc. which could jepordize the entire plant. The gardner in this case, God, lifts up those leaves and washes them off and even stakes them or attaches them to a better position on the trellis so that they can receive the sun and the nutrients they need so as to be fruitful. This to me made much better sense of the scripture from a God that says His desire is that none would perish. If He desires that we remain attached and not perish, would he turn around and judge us before the end or would he give us every opportunity to be the fruitful ones He desires us to be? I believe the later at least it fits with my image of my father/gardner.

I like the comment about sickness or the suffering of a loved one NOT being the pruning of God. I never saw Jesus putting someone in sickness to bring them to perfection. However, Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. So, sickness, whether an attack of the enemy directly, or as a result of the fallen world under the enemy's sway, can be a trial by which we may draw closer to the Healer. BTW, David's question is one of the great ones. Michael can answer it, he knows (I hope!).

On the topic of prunning, we have a saying in Spanish: \"Dios aprieta pero no ahorca.\" Loosely translated it says: \"God squeezes but he doesn't choke.\"

Hello David (And Robert G. Willman); You ask an age old question to which I believe there is no \"pat\" answer. There is however a good answer. Let me explain... Jonah was running from the will of God and found himself in a storm. Paul was dead center in the will of God, bound for Rome, and found himself in a storm and Jesus WAS the will of God and He was in a storm. So I believe the answer is that the stripping away of resources you are experiencing could be the Lord allowing a stripping to produce more fruitfulness in you but it could also be a stripping by the devil, to which the Lord is expecting you to resist. So-o-o-o-o ... Here's the deal... It requires intimacy with the Father. You must seek the Lord and ask Him what you are dealing with. You must learn in situations like this to hear from God. Scripture does not definitively say one way or the other. Wait on the Lord. Strip away all the distractions. All of them. Get quiet before the Lord. Consume extra amounts of Scripture. As you do, He will make some of that come alive in a fresh way and you will know whether He is sayiing Revelation 3:20 to you (Be zealous therefore and repent) or James 4:7 (Resist the devil and he will flee from you). Just to be clear, I am not saying those are the only two things He might speak to you, but He will make you to know what you need to know. You just might have to spend more time than you thought. In the process, you will get much closer to Him. Besides, we are all going to need to hear and recognize and obey His voice more clearly and more quickly in the days ahead. (Hope that was helpful Bob) Blessings, Michael

Sounds good to me, Michael. No disagreement here. What I was going to say, before I saw what Michael was going to say, is that intimacy with the Father and seeking the heart of God is always in your best interest and the object of maturity in Christ. The relationship fills in the theoretical gaps that can mystify us. That relationship is something that gets better and better, and we should not be discouraged if it takes some 'back and forth' with God over time for us to 'know' the answer of whether it is the devil or God dealing with us, in those difficult calls. Did I do alright? (besides the run on sentence)

Michael, Good stuff. But could you please explaing \"fruit\" here... I've heard so many teachigns over the years and everyone wants to talk about the pruning process, or how the soil's not good - but no one ever talks about the fruit!!!! LOL! When I bite into an apple, if it's a good one, I exclaim, \"Wow! You should try these A-P-P-L-E-S.\" I wanted to write more the other day, but your post was VERY timely. I have several fruit trees in our small backyard. I've been interested in \"espaliers\" for some time now - that's trees that have been pruned to looke pretty as well as give good fruit. Other countries have done this for years. Well, I'm not that ambitious quite yet, but I do have a dwarf cherry tree that needed some pruning. You see, if the branches fill in too much, the sun can't get to the fruit because there's too much leaf coverage. Ideally, you really want to begin pruning the tree at a young age - it's NEVER good to take of a large branch. So, as I pruned this tree - that I am very fond of - and then read your post, it hit me! I would very carefully prune away branches. Then I'd step back and look at where other branches needed to be pruned. Sometimes, I'd get the twine out and tie a brick to one end, and the other end to a branch that was out of place - I'd pull the branch over and use the brick to keep it in place - over time it will grow and stay where I want it. The important thing is pruning the side shoots - these are the branches that grow of their own free will, sucking life out of the tree. They're not bad...after all it is a tree and designed to grow - but it's what I want it to do that matters - similar to us and God. So off come those little life sucking branches. The most important thing in this whole process though is the care of the owner!!!! The tree doesn't ask why I'm pruning it, or tell me what to prune. But I care for it. God cares for us - I too spent much of my christian life knowing about Christ - but never knowing how to abide in him. I didn't know how to abide in him because I honestly didn't know him. I was always worried that he was displeased with me because I wasn't perfect! LOL! IT's abotu identity. I AM perfect because he is perfect and lives in me. Does this mean I will never \"sin\" again? No! But it means that he does not count my sin against me. AND it means that he will lovingly and gently \"prune\" the things in my life that are not of him. Sin is ANYTHING that is done outside of God. That means I can serve my church in an effort to feel good about myself (performance based christianity) and be \"sinning.\" That's my two cents. We, his children, need to ralize once and for all that He - our father - loves us. I was drivng down the road once and Father said this to me, \"When are you going to stop being identified with your earthly father and what you got or didn't get from him, and realize all you have in me?\" I about ran off the road! So, knwo that the pruning is actually a wonderful, loving process of caring for us. Now back to my question: what does godly fruit in business look like? Is it being sucessful? Is it making tons of money? Anyone?

Pruning, I see, is a never ending cycle, I guess until we finally get home. One of the most important things I remember during this time is that it is all for my good and for the good of others whom I serve. God needs me to be a \"top of the line type tree\" that represents His best in my field. Sometimes God even allows someone to come alongside of us while we are undergoing a pruning to encourage us to look to the day when things will get better. It is up to each of us to take the encouragement to heart and BE ENCOURAGED!

I think what Michael' s wife said sums it up. God is going to prune us regardless of what we might think or do. Pruning as with mind renewal is solely and sovereignly the work of our loving Father who chastens (prunes) whom He loves and he loves us all. All humanity was created in His image and His image is Christ. In the pruning process God renews our minds and conforms us to the fullness of the image and stature of Christ. None of us can help or any any way alter this process because it is in our DNA which is God's blueprint for who we are destined to become. God has begun the work in us and he will finish it and we all should say, Thank you Lord. Amen! The story of Job is an excellent example of the pruning of one man, Job. His wife and close friends were of no assitance in helping Job get through his individual pruning process. I laugh when I read that Job's wife suggested that he curse God and die. Life with her was obviously part of Job's pruning. But I believe God has given us this story of Job so we can see, among other things, the temporary cameo role that God has ordained for Satan to play in God' s pruning process of all His children. David Thompson

Earlier this year while going through some serious problems/pruning, I was actively trying to discern what the source was. I found in scripture that there are three sources; discipline, trials/tests, or temptations/attacks. Discipline is from the Lord and we need to respond by repenting. Trials or tests can be from a number of sources. We need to perservere through a trial or test. When the enemy tempts us or attacks us we need to resist the devil and he will flee. The following chart came from Dean VanDruff who wrote an excellent treatise called Tests, Trials, and Sufferings. I hope the formatting will work. • DISCIPLINE TEST/TRIAL TEMPTATION FROM The Lord God, World, Satan The Devil RESULT OF-Disobedience Following God Pride or Exposure HOW TO DISCERN-Fits Crime Proves Faith Leads Astray RIGHT RESPONSE -Repent! Persevere Resist! DO NOT Make- Light of Shrink Back Fall into GOD IS SAYING-We are Sons-His Name is in Us-The Flesh is Weak ENDS WITH-Fear and Holiness-Death and Glory-Sin or Victory

I'll try it another way. DISCIPLINE is from The Lord God, it is a result of disobedience. We can discern it if it fits the crime. The right response is to repent. Do not make light of the discipline. God is saying we are His sons. And it can end with fear and holiness. TRIALS/TESTS can be from God, the world, or the devil. They are a result of following God. It can be discerned by the fact that it is proving our faith. The right response is to perservere. Do not shrink back from it. God is saying His name is in us. Ends with death and glory. TEMPTATION is from the devil. It is a result of pride or exposure. We can discern if it is leading us astray. Right response iis to resist. Do not fall into temptation. God is saying our flesh is weak. It will end in sin or victory. Hope this helps.

We all know there are physical fruits like apples and oranges and spiritual fruits like love, joy and peace that we are able to experience, discern, distinguish and comprehend with our physical and spiritual senses. Our physical senses seem to be fairly well developed early on in our lives before we even use them while it seems our spiritual senses are developed later on in life as we encounter and experience spiritual things. It is obvious that most babies can smell and taste the difference between sweet and bitter fruit because we can obesrve that they will usually reject and spit out bitter fruit. Babies can also discern the difference between imitation and real physical fruit simply through their fairly well developed senses of touch, taste, smell and sight. But when it comes to spiritual things like love joy and peace and the other fruits of the Holy Spirit, we have to experience the opposites of love and hate, truth and deception, joy and misery, peace and turmoil before we can distinguish between them. This is the spiritual growth and development process that God has ordained for all mankind. He designed the process, He controls it and He finishes it. In business we may have to experience gaining both ill gotten wealth and righteously acquired wealth so we can experience and understand the difference between the false and fleeting fruits of peace and satisfaction that come with ill gotten wealth and the righteous, eternal fruits of peace and satisfaction that come with righteously acquired wealth. King Solomon was speaking wisdom when he said there is no peace for the wicked. Ill gotten wealth may be acquired through the works of the devil such as selfishness, greediness, dishonesty and exploitation. But the Holy Spirit says through King Solomon that this ill gotten wealth acquired by sinners is laid up for the just. Jesus taught a lot about rich men who have not attained their riches righteously. David Thompson