Poor Wise Men Have No Voice

outstanding word very balanced.This is also great motivation to work hard and keep on keepin on influence for the kingdom is a very worthy goal

If Christ is all-satisfying treasure and promises to provide all our needs, even through famine and nakedness, then to live as though we had all the same values as the world would betray him. I hear the haunting words of Jesus : Do not be anxious, saying , What shall we eat? or What shall we drink? or What shall we wear? For the Gentiles seek after all these things\" Matthew 6:31 -32. In other words, if we look like our lives are devoted to getting and maintaining things, we will look like the world and that will not make Christ look great. He will look like a religious side -interest that may be useful for escaping hell in the end, but doesn't make much difference in what we live or love here. He will not look like an all-satisfying treasure. If we are exiles and refugees here on earth 1 Peter 2:11, and if our citizenship is in heaven Phillippians 3:20, and if nothing cna separate us from the love of Christ Romans 8:35, and His steadfast love is better than live Psalm 63:3, and if all hardship is working for us in eternal glory 2 Corithians 4:17, then we will count everything as rubbish in comparison with Christ Phillipians 3:7-8, We will \"joyfully except the plundering of our property\" for the sake of unpopular acts of mercy Hebrews 10:34, We will choose \"rather to be mistreated with the people of of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin\" and we will count : the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt\" Hebrews 11:25-26 No it is not wrong to have money or things and no I am not saying that everyone should give everything away. I am saying that Jesus loves faith-filled risk for the glory of God. I don't how laws to give you concerning the perticulars of how to spend your money, any more than Jesus did. I just want to say that all Christians should use money and possessions to show that God, not possessions is our treasure. Our lives must look as if we use our possessions to make people gald in God, especially the needy. Both pain and pleasure are laced with poison, ready to kill us withthe deseases of pride or despair. We must keep \"alert\" and I need that warning every day.

Yes, poor wise men do have a voice, just look at the Puritans. They were poor but rich in God and God used them to turn a world upside down. Also the disciples that Jesus chose were all poor except Matthew and they turned the world upside down. God will accomplish His purpose and He does most of the time through poor, broken and suffering people. Because to many times the rest of us are to busy accumulating things and stuff.

Hi Kern;

Had a sneaking suspicion we might hear from you on this one. Good morning my brother! I do appreciate your grasp of the Word and devotion to Christ. It is good to be on the same team with you (Team Jesus).

I have a problem with your presupposition Kern, not your argument. You say, \"then to live as though we had all the same values as the world would betray him\". I say, of course! Who would argue that? You are absolutely correct. But that is not the point I am making, nor the teaching I am espousing.

You continue on to make an argument against a position we are not staking out. I could go point by point over every thing you have said, some of which is not factual, but your premise is wrong, so your argument is misguided.

May I suggest that in your next post, you consider the words of Saint Francis of Assisi who said, \"Seek first to understand, then to be understood.\" By that I mean, instead of arguing against a point I am not making, ask for clarification or understanding or definition on some statement I am saying. In other words, try to understand what I we are posting here instead of being quick to defend something that we are not assailing. It may take me some time to respond as I have many responsibilities, but I would welcome the input from other readers as well. Blessings.

What about the poor widow and her donation of all that she had - the widow's mite? Christ commended her and her act of generosity still impacts Christians today: Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, \"I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything%u2014all she had to live on.\" Ultimately, Truth is what we need to transform lives, not our own platform of success. And yes, God will use the weak, the poor, the despised to shame the wise.

I am very abased at this time.I work in sales on 100% commission and in the last 8 weeeks I have made $729.30.Also I have had to charge groceries and my house payment and both of my cars are in bad shape. In the last 3 weeks I have been street witnessing and have seen 4 adults(one a 71 year old woman)give their hearts to the Lord Jesus.But I have 4 children that were once saved turn from following the Lord and have other people that \"know\" me that are unsaved.I think it is because my life is not a good witness to them. I know and believe all the prosperity scriptures! So I would be interested in comments on my situation per how it relates to this teaching.Thanks and God Bless everyone reading this.

Well spoken Michael! I have ran across Ecc 9:16 last month. I felt encourage to continue work hard and give my all to my work. Since, I am about to burn out. I am glad to see your encouragement and see Ecc 9:16 the same way I see. No wonder Solomon was blessed by dearly.

Michael, I think your stretching this verse to justify the drive toward wealth. In order to advance God's kingdom one does not need to be wealthly or Oprah like. To be heard is God's agenda and timing. Does God want a platform or an open heart? I am not implying being poor with an open heart nor do I think as a Christian one can not attain financial wealth. Our role is to walk by the Spirit. I also realize you are continuing this message...

That is my single purpose for success to find opportunities to tell people about Jesus. God made me to be the number 1 direct sales person in my company and I am using it to drive my agenda to tell people about God and His Son. I next want to be the #1 sales person so I can hopefully get a stage to give testimony how I did not do it on my own but with God's leading, direction and help. I want peolple to say things like, \"You must have God on your side because you couldn't have done it on your own.\" That what Solomon I believe said in the beginning. I am not talking about wealth as an end but a means to an end. Look up great wealthy men of god and you find they gave away more than they kept. R.G. Letourneu went from giving ten percent to living on ten percent.

I understand your message, I know you are building to an ultimate point, so I am awaiting that. The posts to your message were very interesting to read as well. Thank you all for the cross section of opinions. It makes me, my faith, my life, better to read all of it. I have just a couple comments I offer up to each of you on this; 1) I don't think it's how wealthy a person is that makes people listen, more imporatntly to worldly thinking, it's the celebrity status in the particular audience's eye that motivates people to take seriously, the opinion. Many celebrities today offer up their brand of \"what's right\" on a subject & have no experience or credentials to do so. People listen to it, follow it anyway! Just because of the celebrity status of the person, not how much money they have. 2) We are to be at peace with our station in life, where God has put us to do his work, when we are not at peace with that, & trust him to advance us for HIS purpose, we suffer. That may mean we are to make much more money, or even much less money throughout our wordly life. We must be at peace with it - give it up to God - know that he WILL provide for EVERYTHING, let God give us, our celebrity status in our particular area, to use to further his purpose. It's about our celebrity & how we use it with our area of the world we touch...not how much money we make. People only find out how much money you make anyway by what stuff (of the world) you collect & in turn it gets seen. (I've been teaching myself this lesson for some time now with God's help.) Here's one more thought for you to drink in; God will give you a level of celebrity status to do his good, money is something all together different from that.

Christ says that the poor will always be with us. Where is the promise from God that I (or your) will never be one of those poor? Where are riches promised? God does promise success and blessing; however, riches are only one form of same. Your conclusion that only the wealthy can influence the world does not hold water in Biblical principles, Biblical examples or contemporary exaples. The conclusion to your argument is that we must be wealthy before God can use us to influence the world around us. There are some (like Billy Graham) who influence the world in a large a visible-to-the-masses way. There are those (like Dave Jewitt) who likewise influence the world, yet not visible to the masses. Some will be wealthy; some will not. Assuming that you have a call from God to gain wealth and us that wealth as a platform to influence the world, that is not a mandate that God has the same call on all people.

Who was the wealthiest person of all time? Who was the wisest person of all time? Enough said. Money is a means to snd end not and end in itself.

Len; Thanks for your input. Not trying to stretch the verse. Just take it as I read it. However, please remember that it is a general statement, an axiomatic, easily observable truth, not an absolute truth that applies to everyone at all times.

Gary; Like Paul, I have been poor and I have had plenty. Neither one is an absolute guarantee for anyone. I am not trying to make you believe that only the wealthy can influence the world. What I was trying to say, is that the world is far more receptive to what the wealthy have to say. When E.F. Hutton speaks, people listen, so to speak. I am not even saying that is a good thing. Just the way it is, generally.

Jack;

To your point about celebrities. There are almost no celebrities who are not also wealthy, (rich). And being at peace is for me a principal goal, worthy of the highest pursuit. Blessings.

I agree Michael, we should try to have influence whereever God has placed each one of us. Whatever we do, we should do \"heartily unto the Lord\" since we ultimately serve Him. I think Daniel and Joseph are good examples of believers having a Godly influence in the midst of a pagan culture. That said, Paul also tells us the \"Gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing\" so just because we have influence, doesn't mean people will receive the message. But we are called to be faithful stewards...only God can bring the increase. At the end of the day, I do want to be used by God and that necessitates I try to live a life of integrity that will give me a platform for others to listen.

Don't fear success. Don't fear failure. Just walk with our Lord and He will use us in ways we can never fully comprehend until we are truly with Him with an eternal frame of mind and consciousness. I understand that you are going to continue this blog/reflection but at this point I would say that your comments about pursuing wealth and worldly success in order to gain credibility for passing on \"The Way\" is backwards. Pursue \"The Way\" and if that pursuit entails worldly success and wealth God will enable that to happen. Mother Theresa left her convent for the streets of India without one other person with her or any wealth or any worldly credibility. All she had was the deep calling from the Lord and the courage to answer His call. She never had any personal wealth but His voice was heard through her to many of the world. Wealth is not intrinsically evil but pursuing wealth before God is evil. It is often too easy to rationalize with ourselves that we are pursuing wealth in order to spread God's word. So I would make sure that if that is what you think God is calling you to do that you share your thoughts with some good Christian friends and, if married, with your Christian wife to make sure you are not convincing yourself versus truly following God's plans for you.

Michale I still disagree that those with wealth have more influence in the world. I just don't see that in the Bible or in the world today.

The issue is n't pursueing wealth but success. Success is sales breeds wealth. It is a by product of success. The focus is to be on success. God has made us to be successful if we would only work with Him. If you read the Bible the successful people are all over the place, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Lot, Job, David, Solomon, Daniel, etc. Psalm 37:18-26 Emphasis on vs. 25. Ultimately God know we you want success! God knows our hearts.

Micheal, Me thinks you should have focused on diligence, rather than wealth. For the scripture teaches that the diligent shall bear rule. Meaning that it is those individuals that are heard and their views considered. No matter if you are saved or lost, if you have a diligent work ethic, people take notice and they ask questions. It doesn't matter if you know what you are talking about or not. It's what others see, that get them curious about you and what you think. Diligence conveys to others accomplishment, not accumulation. Oprah, may have much wealth, but it's not her wealth people talk about. It's her relentless efforts to be the best and to help those less fortunate. Also take some of those nasty, godless rock n' roll singers. Most folks don't know this, but famous rock n' roll stars are relentless to be the best, no matter how tasteless their music is. The more you stay on top, the more you are seen. The more you are seen, the more people believe what you have to say, because you have made a serious effort to stay in the public's eye. Jesus was diligent about the Father's business and was heard by all, just not received by all. He had zero wealth and changed the entire world forever. As a believer I am to be diligent with what the Father has given me. My promotional gift business He called me to it. So now I must be diligently seeking to meet more people. The more people I see, the more I am seen. The more satisfied customers I gain, the more I will be recognized as a professional. That reputation, not my accumulation, is what will bring me before others to share the Father's message. Proverb:22:29: Seest thou a man diligent in his business? he shall stand before kings; he shall not stand before mean men. Woody Quinones ThePromotionalGuy.com

Those who are diligent will be successful! People listen to successful people no matter their spiritual state that is why it is so important for us as Christians to be diligent so our voice will be also heard and not drowned out. Diligence produces success!

Thanks for a good word Michael! I've said it before on another bb, and I'll say it here. It's not about how much you have, but what you do with it. Because we live in this world, the more you have, the more you can do to reach the lost. Wealth in itself is not evil, as was stated by others. Another thing the Lord showed me is when people who hear the words 'success, abudance, wealth, prosperity, etc' and automatically think of money, they might be the ones with the issue, not necessarily those who are promoting said wealth. Wealth and abundance come in all forms, relationships, job advancement, etc. Would someone who loves the Lord, is diligent in thier belief and hardworking turn down an advancement in thier job because \"Its wrong to be abundant and prosperous\"? I wouldn't. It is because of my love for God, diligence and hard work that I am being promoted! Also, what is being taught here can be used in every area of our lives, not just in our finances.

Michael, Great council on seeking to understand what you mean and if I misunderstood, please forgive me. But it seem to me that you were saying that the poor have no voice and that only the wealthy have a voice. If that is not the case please forgive me and explain to me what you meant. agree that the wealthy or powerful many times do get an audience but what they say is not biblical. And I include a lot of pastors in that group. I agree with you that wealth or things are not sin in themselves but many times we make them idols and once we do that, they become sin. Not many people can handle wealth and I believe that is why the Psalmist says, do not give me wealth or poverty that I may dishonor God.\" We as Christians must be able to be satisfied with Christ along. Pauls talks about even if we are persecuted our whole life that we live on earth what is that compared to living with God for eternity. When I read your blog a couple of thoughts came to my mind. One was John Buyan, who was thowed into jail, had a wife and two children at home, one child was blind. He was told he could get out as long as he would stop preaching the gospel. He refused and stayed in jail and while in jail he wrote Pilgrim Progress the second most read book ever. The second thought was the shoe salesman who led DeWight L Moody to the Lord. Both were very poor but did great things for God.

Greg, Have you went to your church for help? I would recommend you go to your pastor and tell him your situation and that you need help. God may have someone ready to help you but do not know your needs.

Greg;

Without knowing the situation, it is difficult to say why you haven't succeeded in sales. You may not be well suited for it. You may be doing the wrong things. You may not be very diligent. You may be diligent but not skilled. I can't tell. What I would urge you to do, is quickly assess what it is you do well and find an opportunity to do that asap. Do it with excellence and do it with diligence and over time you will pull out of the slump you are in. You might seek a career counselor out as well.

Thanks, Abraham Kuyper was pretty clear about this issue and so are you. I hope others see past the knee jerk reaction and plumb the depths of a life lived as a whole man in Christ.

Kern;

No forgiveness required friend. I know you mean well, as do I. To answer your question, what I meant that as a general rule, a principle if you will, people don't value the advice of the poor. Never have. Never will. I in know way suggest that anyone should find fulfillment in riches. How dire. How empty! Christ is my all in all and the One who fills me with unspeakable, unsearchable riches in Him. I will never plumb the depths of what He has deposited in me by His Spirit or what He has made available to me by the deposit of His Spirit in me. Watch for my email today for my of my comments.

Without taking issue with anyone, I would like to recommend a book. \"Money, A Biblical Perspective\" by Andrew Murray. 107 pages large print. Read prayerfully.

This is certainly becoming a rousing discussion. Here are a couple of thoughts:

First of all, Kern mentioned the Puritans. I had to re-read what he said twice because I was shocked at the way he referenced them. From my understanding of history, the Puritans took on an enormous amount of risk, obtained financing to relocate to an entirely different continent, and their work ethic created what became arguably the single most prosperous economy in the history of the world. The Puritans are a great example to use in this discussion, but not because of poverty -- quite the opposite. In fact, they went from being completely without influence in their oppressive homeland to having the authority to establish their civilization the way they saw fit. That is, my friend, both wealth AND influence.

Secondly, anyone who cannot see the correlation between wealth and influence is either ignorant or just plain naive.

Thirdly, we are clearly instructed in scripture that we must guard against an undue desire for riches. No question about this. But did you ever notice that we are also instructed against having an undue desire for many other things? Did God mean, for example, that we must avoid sex because we might develop an undue desire for it? Not at all. He merely instructed us that there is a proper context for it (the marriage relationship) and that the expression of the desire must be subject to Godliness and purity. We must not be controlled by it, but rather be in charge over it.

Somehow within the body of Christ, we have confused the notion that we are to bring ungodly desires into subjection with the notion that we must \"not touch.\" This is a demonic lie from the pit of hell. If any of us has an uncontrollable desire for money, we are to repent!

Also, did you ever notice that usually the people who have the biggest problem with desiring money are the ones who DON'T have enough of it?

God clearly intends for us to expand and advance His Kingdom in this earth. For us to do so, finances are a REQUIREMENT. God is not so cruel as to make something which we MUST HAVE something that is \"off limits.\"

The heated debate over this question shows just how desperately we need to renew our minds according to the Word of God, and be freed from the religious \"poverty = piety\" garbage that the Church has propagated for centuries.

We must all be willing to subject our ideas and our thinking to the truth of the Word of God. Thank you, Michael, for helping us to do this.

When I mentioned the Puritans, I was referring to John Bunyan, John Owens, Wilbur Wilberforce, John Newton and many more. yes , there was some wealthy but God used many that were very poor and destitute.

First let me say that I do not know many churches teaching poverty = piety today. If anything the wealth and prosperity garbage is the message of choice from a lot of the churches today. Christians are subject to famine and nakedness just like non Christians. Have not some of the greatest saints in the world been stripped and starved? Hebrews 11:37-38 \" They were stoned,they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated of whom the world was not worthy - wondering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens adn caves of the earth.\" The material losses and miseries of these believers was not owning to their unbelief or lack of faith. They were faithful people \"of whom the world was not worthy. Jesus did nto promise comfort. He did not promise to spare us from death of any kind. Persecution and plague consumed the saints. That is why Paul wrote, \"We ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for the adoption of sons, the redemption of our bodies.\" Romans 8:23

In defense of Michael, he did state this was a \"general principle\", and certainly there are exceptions as have been pointed out in this conversation. He also appealed to us to reference the Whole Counsel of God - and stewardship of time, talents, and treasures being one of them. Yes suffering is inevitable - my family has disowned me for my faith in Christ...but I've also been blessed in my own business, so I'm learning to take the good with the bad, and continue to trust God even when things don't make sense. I would encourage those who misunderstood the inital comments by Michael to re-read them, after several re-reads I have appreciated the balance perspective communicated here.

Mother Theresa...a very wise, poor celebrity.

Thanks, I REALLY, REALLY needed that word. I'm on a new mission -success and wealth as a testimony. :-)

Whit, Great opening to your response. I am encouaged by your words.

I appreciate your thirst for God...it is very easy for those interpreting your words to come up with all types of interpretations. This is getting very interesting, and we may all grow from it. \"Holy Spirit come and reconcile our hearts on this issue and speak directly to each of us\".

Michael, I appreciate your response, thanks. I must say I look foward to reading your column every morning. You have enriched my life with the thought provoking insight you present. The comments everyone has sent in return are awesome. I have benefited from them. Michael, would you agree from all the varied responses that celebrity gives you the stage to influence others, wealth gives you the opportunity to create an influence on others, diligence & success sets an example others want to emulate or have, so it offers credibility & an opportunity to influence others as well? Poor - (Mother Theresa, Saint Francis of Assisi) - as well as the the rich, can influence a multitude of people?

Hi Jack,

Thanks for the kind comments. As for your question, I would agree with your comment on celebrity, wealth, diligence and success. Also poor can influence but less likely. More the exception, not the rule. By the way, Mother Theresa had great wealth at her disposal but used it for the poor. St. Francis of Assisi was famous because he was quite wealthy but gave it up to live among the poor.

Michael, this is a great exchange. With each response, out comes more good information to relate. I agree that Mother Theresa had wealth from others at her disposal to utilize, and what great works she accomplished. I would also agree she was likely more the exception. St. Francis was indeed a more prominent figure, had wealth, also had a bit of a reputation as a street fighter & party person before his experience that led him to God's word. He did give up everything, even his clothes, as he wore rags, went barefoot, etc. He begged for others needs, cared for others health, including the animals. He definitely convinced people through his diligence, strength of faith, & by example, once he submitted all that was him in this world to God's glory. Thanks again & God Bless

Back at ya Jack... Appreciate not only your feedback but all those who took the time to contribute. Blessings to you all!